Chronic Marriage Phobia Chronicles II

2008 October 14

 

Here, in Pakistan, this is how things in the arranged marriage business works.

 

Meeting I: It always has to be the guy’s family who proposes. If most of them haven’t met the girl, or if someone has just put the families in touch, the guy’s family usually goes over to the girl’s house. The guy and the girl meet each other and the families.

 

Meeting II: Then, if all’s well, the girl’s family is invited over to the guy’s house. The girl doesn’t go. Its considered inappropriate. (I think its unfair. If the guy’s seen my house, I want to know how they live too!)

 

Meeting III: If both sides approve, the boy and girl get to meet again and this time around, they spend some time conversing, if they choose to do so. They don’t always. :) Mostly it’s a ‘liked-at-first-meeting’ kinda thing.

 

But, it’s usually the guy’s family that gets first choice… and it’s usually they who ‘choose’. The girl’s family is supposed to be ever-so-grateful that they’re gifting their son to them and they are supposed to meet up with the guy’s family’s demands of jaha’ez (dowry). Pakistani society often refers to dowry as the punishment for having a daughter.

 

In my case, the dowry is not a problem… or a question. My parents are going to give zilch, LOL. Like my father says, we paid your university fee, that’s the entire dowry we’re giving. You have a good degree and common sense. That’s the best dowry girls can have. Sure, tell that to other people!

 

That brings me to the topic of ‘choosing’. To be ‘chosen’ is a bit humiliating in its own right. Like, oh hey, I passed the test based on how I look! Ee, I dunno. It’s awful. That’s all I can say about the experience.

 

Think of it, most of our choices would be so different were we not in this ‘arranged marriage’ business. Here, the only thing that people choose each other on is ones ‘looks’.

 

Fairly speaking, when you know that is the only aspect you have a choice in; you can’t help but put in very high standards. You have no idea what your future partner’s mindset might be like. Why not at least get it to your standard in the looks department?

 

My parents say the silliest things about ‘boys’, as they call all the prospects.

 

This one is so short, Specs.

This one is too thin, Specs.

This one, nah, we just don’t like him, Specs. Blah blah.

 

Very strangely, it is I who end up defending the guys and telling my parents again and again to make Astaghfar (although I say it laughingly but I mean it); ‘this is someone’s SON you are talking about. How would you feel if they said this about your daughter?? I’m not perfect either.’ ‘Yes,’ as my mum puts it, ‘but THEY liked you.’

 

Erm, superb logic. Beat that.

 

But was I to make my own choice, I am very sure I would let most of the physical standards go. Tall? Short? Fat (okay maybe just a bit, not very much!)? Long hair? Short hair? Bald? I don’t care. That much, I can swear on. On occasion, I have been told off by my parents for having a ‘weird choice’ because they think guy X or Y would not really ‘look good’ with me but I keep on repeating, ‘Nah, I think he’s okay’ because their personalities so overcome any physical attributes… or the lack of them.

 

 

Nowadays, it’s easier and easier to get out of marriages. Muslims have started divorcing like never before. In my childhood, I had not heard of a single divorce; it was whispered of among aunties in a low voice and shown on TV as something which only happens once a blue moon. The definition of a terrible tragedy was… the dreaded D word: Divorce.

 

My point here is not to launch into a discussion on the merits and de-merits of divorce. My point is simply this: with it being an easy option for my generation, twenty somethings who are going to be ‘planning’ their family after they get to understand each other (I echo common philosophy here).. for these people, exercising prudence when choosing a marriage partner, or looking for compatibility in ideas and views is becoming more and more irrelevant.

 

Fair skinned girls and tall guys are no measure of future success. You have no idea whether you will agree on basic issues in life; what shall be shaping your decision when it comes to crucial issues. The following discussion I narrate to you actually took place. Both guys are University graduates with excellent jobs.

 

Guy 1: You know, I want someone very pretty

Guy 2: That’s not the be all and end all of marriage. You need to focus on a good character more.

Guy 1: I don’t care. As long as she’s very pretty.

Guy 2: How’s pretty going to help you if she’s rude to your family, or insults you in front of other people, or flirts with your friends?

Guy 1: Doesn’t matter. If she’s like that, I’ll divorce her. But at least I will have my initial three months of fun.

 

If you’re not saying Oh-My-GOD at this stage, maybe you need to. This is what educated Pakistani Muslim guys think like. And sadly, so do girls. This is why whenever I say, ‘not really, what the guy looks like is not very important’, people start telling me how bad that is, and how can I live with a husband I do not find attractive, etc etc. Did I SAY I want someone who is unattractive? It’s just that my criterion of attractiveness is different from most of the people around me. I have seen, up close, the devastating damage parents who cannot get their acts together can do to families. To me, a person who is faithful and a good father to my children, does not cheat or lie and someone I can trust with my eyes closed would be one who I find attractive. Thick hair? Square jaw? LOL, WHAT a foundation for a marriage! If it comes with the package, well and good. I shall be thankful if I end up with a real looker, I’m not unappreciative of good looks, but if not, really, I have different priorities. Its not something I bother myself with.

  

Strangely, and very sadly, of all my classmates and friends who have gotten married, I’ve heard something sensible from none save one of them: I think I can make a good family with this guy.

 

Its strange how no one but a minority actually have that ‘long term’ aspect in their thinking. Everyone treats marriage as only a means to having a halal, society-approved physical relationship. There’s a good reason for that: In a society where we have open access to cable and internet; and thus inappropriately dressed women and men who would give you, as a friend puts it, ‘thoughts’ , there’s no place for youth to… lets put it this way… spend their energies on. ‘Boy friend’ and ‘girl friend’ are words thrown about without much thought. 10 years ago, a boy friend was someone girls talked to on the phone, and maybe, if they were daring, went out with for ice-cream or soda. Now, a boyfriend is something much different. It’s close to the western definition now. That obsession with the opposite gender and the societal pressure of having a partner who is a great looker would be enough to explain away this strange obsession with ‘looks’. Sometimes, parents who approach my parents have but one ‘demand’:

 

 My son wants a girl with long hair.

 

My mother: Well, she wears a hijab too so are you sure your son would be okay with that?

 

Weird aunty: Nahin, my son doesn’t really care. The girl can be religious or not; really that’s no problem. But she’s got to have long hair.

 

Umm… okaaaay.

 

 

I once ran into a weird aunty at some religious lecture who got it in her mind that yes, her son and I would be a very good idea so, a few weeks later, she finds some common connections and is sitting at our place.

 

‘Well,’ she begins, ‘actually my son doesn’t like girls who wear hijabs. He wants a modern girl.’

 

 This word forever irks me (because I don’t think girls who wear denim jackets and red heels to interviews are modern but that’s how Pakistani society describes modern) but… coming back to the topic, I look at her, uncomprehending. I mean, erm, if your son has a problem with girls who cover their head, find him one who doesn’t. I mean, what’s the issue?

 

 ‘So,’ she continues, ‘will you please meet him with your hair open? After the wedding, we can tell him that you wear the hijab and then, I will support you and he will fall in line, don’t worry.’

 

I am actually getting angry just thinking about that episode so let me take a deep breath here

 

*deep breath*

 

Can you imagine? The hypocrisy? The lie? Does this lady, who thinks of herself as so religious know of this Hadith?

“Lying is improper whether in earnest or in jest. (All lying is unacceptable) even if any one of you promises his child something and does not fulfill his promise.

(Related by Al-Bukahri in Al-Adab Al-Mufrad and Abu Dawood)

Is there another bad word that will not aptly describe what this aunty was out to do? THAT is how our parents think. And that is how they weigh our choices. Our likes, dislikes, preferences mean nothing to them if they’re out-of-sync with their own desires. 

 

 

 

 

‘Refugee’ made a very though provoking comment on my previous post. He said:

He said we were making a wrong choice, he said go ahead and get marry now because you want your wife to see all the hard ships you have gone through all these years. If you marry once you have every thing, she would never understand that what hard ships did you go through and she would always think that life was almost smooth for you and would take your accomplishments for granted we … all had to really struggle to achieve some thing in life. And you know there are certain feelings and hardships that can’t be describe in words…. past those seem distant memories but those were some tough days. I wish if I had married earlier then my wife would have known all the troubles I had to go through. Coming to US with borrowed lil money which was supposed to be returned ASAP and survive with nothing but hope and hard work. Those were some days but it made us stronger. So if you marry some guy then please don’t take him or his accomplishments for granted. We might never share those hardships with our wives but it does not mean that scars are not there. 

 

 

There, as you can see, is another reason I am against the whole prospect of arranged marriages. You have no idea what shaped your partner; or what scars they carry. Roller coaster ride as Yousuf puts it in the comments section? I disagree. Its a committment. Not only a joy ride. There are responsiblities that come with this union, which is a fact most people tend to forget. 

 

 

Although I know I cannot speak for guys, but it would be unfair to leave out what I do know: that their monetary income seems to be the only ‘swing’ factor for girl’s parents when choosing one guy over the other.  See, guys, the problem is: our parents try to be too mathematical about the match. Some things are best left to fate. If the guy is a hard worker and intelligent enough, he’s going to chart his way out himself and give your daughter a good standard, even if he doesn’t have that right now.

 

 

The mind, it is said, is an excellent servant but a terrible master. It takes the happenings around you and colors them with meaning; that, in turn, translates them into ‘experiences’. Our parents are basing their choices on their experiences. But, to me, they are becoming victims of their too-rational thinking. They think they can chart out our lives for us; that is why they believe they are making the best decision when they tell me to consider that 30 year old with an ivy league degree instead of the 26 year old with a ‘just-good’ degree. Life is so variable; you cannot control a lot of things. I wish they’d stop letting their mind being their master and let us have our say.

 

 

There’s no real guideline on how to choose or what standards to use. Every arranged match is a shot in the dark. Its only your luck whether you end up with a gem… or a worthless stone.

Haleem advised me once to make a list of my priorities and match prospects against them to see if they make the grade. Man, with me, I am a walking disaster, ha ha. :) If I make a list, this is what I fear will happen… 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

As far as the fact that most people misinterpreted my concerns for a man who is not very unhelpful to translate as ‘one who is domesticated’, that I will answer in another post, InshaAllah.

 

 
 
 
 
 

 

37 Responses leave one →
  1. 2008 October 14

    somehow i hear natasha beddingfield’s song right now…

    take me awaaaaaaaay… !!!

    i hate this marriage shit… sorry but i do !!! thanks to it i have lost all respect and love i had for the people i hav cared the most in my life… my family… and some friends even… !!!

    I hav to agree with the divorce thing… on my last brush with this whole arranged marriage thing i was so darned sure of divorce that i had actually stopped buyin stuff coz i knew within an year i would be dividin it in half !!!

    i wish our parents would grow up… like seriously !!! its not like most of them are the happiest people in world… and its not their moral duty to avenge themselves by puttin us in a similarly awkward scenrio…

    ‘hum ne bi to ki thee… ‘ well look at yourself now !!! not very happy are you !!!

    (okay.. i got a bit carried away :D )

    It does seem to be a sore issue with all of us, then! When you talk about parents, mine had a love match (no other matches between the families if you know what I’m saying, :p) they had to go against the whole world to get married. A lot of times, I feel they just don’t realize what they’re putting me through

  2. 2008 October 14

    woman! you are speed blogging! i haven’t read this post yet. i’m intimidated by how much i have to catch up on!!! ahhhhhh! first i have to “find” the last post i read!

    I thought i was going slow! Welcome back, Meow!

  3. 2008 October 14

    Why must the girl’s family pay dowry? Doesn’t it work the other way around in Islam?

    Solace, I don’t really know about the concept of dowry in Islam; are you referring to the compulsory Haq Mehr? Yes, the man pays it.

    In Pakistan, dowry is paid by the girl’s family whereas the guy’s family will only pay the Islamic minimum REQUIRED (Islam asks them to pay AS MUCH as they can afford, the more, the better…but people conveniently gloss that over).In Pakistan, the dowry tradition is so bad that girls are burned to death or divorced just because they didn’t bring enough dowry. There are so many NGO’s crusading against it. Its a pretty huge issue in Pakistan.

    For more information on the South Asian definition of ‘dowry’, I can recommend Achelois’ article.

  4. 2008 October 14

    As cliched as it may sound, marriage is a gamble. And just like most gambles, you can try and predict the outcome of a marriage as well by considering a certain set of factors. The problem is that you can never be sure.

    The bigger problem, however, is that parents have an entirely different method of predicting marriages, which you discussed quite aptly in the post.

    And even a “more bigger” problem is that the gamble factor is present not just in arranged marriages, but in marriages-by-choice as well. (Somehow, love marriage seems too filmi to me. Marriage-by-choice is pretty lame as well, because its antonym would appear to be marriage-by-force, which is not always synonymous with an arranged marriage. But, well, you get the point.)

    I agree with you on almost all of the things you have mentioned. I agree that a guy and a girl who are supposed to spend the rest of their lives together have the right to know each other first. I also agree that the attraction principles (is this an oxymoron?) are not the same for everyone. And I agree that marriage is not just a halal physical relationship. But — yes, there’s always a but — sometimes, parents really do have a point. I wish I had the liberty of disclosing some incidents in this regard, but sadly I don’t; all I have to support my claim is just my word. :)

    Also, getting-to-know-one’s-partner’s-scars may also occur after getting married, and most of the times (I am being very optimistic, by the way), it’s during the hardships that one may bond with one’s spouse in a more intimate way. Yes, there are exceptions to everything, and I am already generalizing too much, but just thought to say it anyway.

    I have always been of the view that if a guy and a girl develop a certain level of understanding and trust towards each other, then it’s time to step back and let the parents handle everything. Of course, that’s a scenario which is found mostly in a social utopia, but I have seen examples of this scenario in our very own dystopian world as well. Figuring a middle way out is difficult already in most of the things, and matters of marriage are even more complex in this regard…

    Bottom line, in my opinion, is that no two situations are entirely alike. What worked for one might fail horribly for the other. The key is to predict what will work better in which case, which brings us back to gambling. :)

    Oh, and I like the way your dad thinks about dowry. :D

    Saadat, thanks for the detailed comment! I totally agree with you when you say that its during the hardships that the partners end up bonding more. That’s exactly what I think: If you’ve never experienced the bad things in life together; never been a support for each other, you don’t even KNOW each other then.

    I find myself in perfect accord with you when you say that once people reach a certain understanding, they should let their parents handle the rest. I’m not discounting their importance in any way, all I’m implying is that they should treat my opinions as important too! They treat me like a child when it comes to asking my opinions, but when it comes to marrying me off, suddenly I’m grown up enough? There’s something else that I can see coming if they go on like this: if they think I’m ill equipped to deal with the question of my marriage, I don’t have the slightest doubt my mother will think I’m not fit to run my own house and will try to do it for me.

    Its really convoluted, isn’t it? :(

  5. 2008 October 14

    Wow. That was long. :oops:

    No, that was detailed and informative! You put a lot of stuff in a better way than I could.

  6. 2008 October 14

    Specky, I agree with you and sympathize as well. I’m older than you and got married ten years ago but I can understand your situation. My parents were the least desi – my dad was born and brought up in the UK and my mother isn’t desi to begin with, yet there was always the ‘arranged marriage’ threat because some distant ‘aunty’ would see me and decide I had to be her DIL. Will blog about all that some day.

    I knew my husband for four years before we got married so in effect I knew him inside out :) I knew his strengths and his weaknesses. We were both very young when we got married so we worked very hard to build a future together. It was difficult but worth every hardship. We were parents before our 23rd birthdays! Mashallah it all worked out. But in the end I can’t thank Allah enough for bringing Aly into my life. I don’t know what I would have done if we hadn’t met.

    And I am the kind of person who loves beautiful people. I mean I could have easily chosen the wrong person based solely on looks :D It was Aly’s good looks that got me interested in him in the first place. It was my good luck that there is a great human being behind his looks. Alhamdulliah.

    So, what I am trying to say is a good marriage to a good spouse at just the right time is solely based on luck. Once one is married then certainly you need to work hard to make the marriage successful. It is only the most stupid who would ruin it purposefully or carelessly lose a good spouse. Inshallah you will soon find the one you can spend your future with. It is difficult but not impossible.

    It was so interesting to know more about how you got married!

    You know, its the luck factor you mentioned that really scares me; planning or no planning, in a way, our fates are decided. Its so much blind luck whether you know the person or you don’t. You’re right @ hard work; it would be stupid to blame a marriage or your partner if I’m the one who’s not doing enough to maintain the relationship. But the whole ‘luck’ factor brings home how much is not in my control… and on a level, that’s just so scary… and extremely frustrating because I can’t do anything about it.

  7. 2008 October 14

    Okay, I have absolutely no comment regarding the “weird aunties”.

    What I can assure you, however, is the fact that my marriage was also arranged. I didn’t know much about Masood, except that he fulfilled my criteria for a husband: namaazi, a stable job, doesn’t smoke/drink, would allow me to secure a job. Then, I took a look at his photo. Thus, I announced to the entire khandaan that I accept the rishta (Masood accepted first, as the tradition goes) and the next thing I know is that everyone started preparing for a wedding!

    Right after I said, “Qubool hai” for the third time, I thought: did I just do the right thing?!

    And Alhumdulillah, as the time went by, I got to know him better, and everything is sailing smoothly :)

    You’re a lucky one indeed, then! MashaAllah.

    That’s the way arranged marriages are supposed to work! But it depends a lot on the families. If one of them is like the ‘aunty’ who wanted me to ‘trick’ her own son, there’s little choice for me then.

  8. 2008 October 14
    souvenirsandscars permalink

    LOOOOOOOOOL!!!
    OMG, who woulda thought our cultures would be soooo similar?? The weird aunties? omygoodness have I had my share of weird aunties that make me wanna run outta the room screaming “GOD SAVE ME!!,” or what?!
    AlhamdiAllah, I’ve so far managed to restrain myself.
    But seriously. Their demands are preposterous!! Like you said, they’re basically based on physical appearance and genetic compatibility, by which I mean you’ll make nice babies without any defects or God forbid, curly hair, dark skin, and brown eyes. SHUDDER.
    Btw. Your dad is wicked ;)
    My uncle keeps saying the same thing. He’s like what more could I guy want? Your dad fixed you up completely what with LASEK eye surgery, braces, a degree, and a Canadian passport!!!
    ‘Cept in Syria, the guy pays the dowry. Not the other way around. The girl buys the bedroom set and all the kitchen appliances. Does that give you an insight into Syrian culture or what?!

    OH no! Are the ‘aunties’ everywhere?!? No one is safe!
    You’re right @ demands; I’ve actually HEARD people say this: “Oh, he’s tall and dark, she’s short but white, InshaAllah Allah will give them white and tall children.” I mean, they could turn out to be short and dark and shoot the ‘aunties” planning to hell, LOL! Its really strange how people think they are getting a better gene pool if they go for fairer girls and taller guys.
    I like your system of dowry…I think Syrian culture is going to be much better for my parent’s pockets. :)

  9. 2008 October 14

    Wow. If my parents ever accuse me of having epic marriage rants, I’ll just show them yours! ;)

    I didn’t know about the whole jahaez thing until a year or two ago – it’s just wrong, and completely unIslamic! And added to that, there’s the families that think it’s okay to give like 50p in mahr – because, you know, you shouldn’t be too materialistic…

    Fortunately my parents are a lot more concerned with the guy’s character and their daughters’ happiness than anything else. The only thing I could whine about is that they’re too open minded – always willing to give a family a second chance, even if their son’s a minger!

    Oh, and I was complaining about the whole rishta system to my dad, and he said it’s all about the way you look at it. Yeah, the guy chooses first, but that gives the girl the final choice, the executive decision if you will :P . Only problem is, if some loser guy says no, you can’t just call them back and say “OH YEAH?! WELL WE DIDN’T LIKE YOU EITHER! YOU CAN’T FIRE ME, I QUIT!!”

    LOL! There’s more rants coming up!

    I LOVE the last paragraph… a veteran of the system, I see.. like me! :D Sometimes, i really feel like calling people up and telling them the ‘you-can’t-fire-me-I-quit’ thing! Its so true!

    …well, not without coming across as strange. :D

  10. 2008 October 14

    OK you have pushed me over to the side… I guess I have to stop being lazy and write up a post on the challenges of an arranged marriage .. AFTER the wedding.

    At last! I hope I didn’t push TOO hard! :D

    Do write up on it. I’m all ears.. or eyes, as the case may be. Its going to be great to know about this arranged marriage phenomenon from someone who’s actually been there.

  11. 2008 October 14

    Very nicely written and very funny! I enjoyed reading it lots! :)

    Via http://indiahacker.com/comments/7rs/pakistan_choices_in_an_arranged_marriage/

    Welcome to my blog. And thanks.

  12. 2008 October 14

    “because I don’t think girls who wear denim jackets and red heels to interviews are modern but that’s how Pakistani society describes modern”

    DITTO

    Tell me about it! :)

  13. 2008 October 15

    it hink someone made a big mistake by coming with a rishta… i have read similar posts from women the very night or next day of a potential rishta…

    its not the same zamana and hence everybody has to adjust…including aunties, parents, us, guys etc…

    No, there’s nothing like that. This post is the second part of a series. So, its not a random rant. ‘Potential Rishtas’ don’t faze me; I’m a 4 year veteran of this game, :) In fact, I’m so unfazed that my mum is shocked by how clinically I discuss the ‘boys’ with my dad.
    We, the new generation ARE trying to adjust, but it seems to me no one taught our parent’s generation what ‘adjusting’ means. They did their own thing when they were young; now they want to mathematically plan out our lives for us as well. I think we have a right to make our own mistakes and not have to suffer the consequences of someone else’s.

  14. 2008 October 15

    ah the perils of arranged marriages – thank God I didn’t have any of this stuff! Reminds me too much of a cattle market; come see the cow and find out how much milk she gives.

    Funny example but sadly, so true! I do refer to it as the ‘cattle market’ which REALLY ticks my mother off, LOL

  15. 2008 October 15

    I can’t really say much becuase really and truly i wouldn’t know, i don’t think i’m going to be going through much of this (or so it is presumed) as everyone already has a rough idea to whom i am (supposedly)going to marry. Then if the simple rishta doesn’t work the gma and the stepmum will use the “honour” card and then the “emotional blackmail” card. Which i will face when i get to that hurdle, or so God help me.

    You know, you’re right. Don’t worry about crossing your bridges before you come to them. InshaAllah, it’ll get better.
    Plus, just because he’s your parent’s choice doesn’t necessarily mean he’s bad. So, try to give everyone a chance. I know I try to! *key word, ‘try’* *hugs*

  16. 2008 October 15

    You know your dad’s concept of dowry is in itself a great way of eliminating 70% of the materialistic guys :) (I thought I’d begin with the bright side). On the downside, the whole concept of an arranged marriage infuriates me and I’m turning into Taz! I agree with all of the things you said in your post but one. In my opinion institutional education does not determine one’s mindset, smartness or if one’s more likely to succeed in life…I’ve met people from both sides of the pond but as you said that’s more of an attractiveness criteria so it’s subjective.
    Saadat said it quite well: marriage is a gamble in itself; you, the guy or your parents can make prediction but things can or cannot go as predicted and you know sometimes it’s not even someone’s fault (especially when both take it seriously and try their best). It just happens precisely because we cannot be 100% right all the time.
    I was one of the weird kids who’s parents got divorced when I was like 9 years old, more of a curiosity back then but things have changed and I’m actually starting to see trends over the years. In some years it seems that it’s en vogue to get married and in others to get divorced. It’s sad actually because it shows just how superficial people can be and that marriage is sometimes treated just like going out on a simple date.

    But I did not say that institutional education makes a better man. I said that that’s what my parents think. What i think is that “If the guy is a hard worker and intelligent enough, he’s going to chart his way out himself and give your daughter a good standard, even if he doesn’t have that right now.” So, I totally agree with you on that. That’s what I meant about parents being too mathematical about matching potentials with their children: Ivy Leaguers do not necessarily mean a better life or a happier marriage.
    You’ve put what I wanted to say into better words: marriages are being treated like going out on a date. So true. And really sad too.

  17. 2008 October 15

    As for the weird aunties how about we arrange them a marriage? ;)

    Ha ha ha!! Most of them are married and have nothing better to do in their spare time! You know, the funny thing is, most of them are horrible dressers and have the least amount of good manners; I keep on wondering, who married this woman? Poor guy, LOL!
    EE, i know I’m being mean but seriously, when they give you the ‘dissecting’ gaze, its so hard not to think bad things about them!

  18. 2008 October 15

    “You have a good degree and common sense. That’s the best dowry girls can have.” – you have a smart dad! I really like that statement. And reading this post and your thoughts about the whole issue, I’d say his words are perfect :D It’s a shame there’s so few Pakistani parents who think like this, surely it’d make things so much easier.

    You know I think from all my friends here, it’s my Pakistani ones that have the most trouble finding someone to settle down with and most of the problems I can see stem from what the parents want or don’t want. Very rarely does the daughter have a real say without anyone pressuring her.

    Aye, my dad’s statement seems to be a public hit here! I think i should get it trademarked as a rallying cry for people against dowries! :) I like it too. Makes me feel good!
    You’ve hit the nail right on the head; for some reason, this problem is so limited to Pakistani families on the whole because they still haven’t found a balance between culture and religion. They still have reservations about their girls finding their own husbands even if they’re marrying AFTER family approval.

  19. 2008 October 15

    wow, great post. my hubby and i picked each other and were married at 18. now we have 2 kids and are happy alhumdulillah, but i have to agree with saadat that even though we knew each other well, it worked for our situation. It was still a shot in the dark (mostly because we were so young we didn’t even know ourselves). and also with suroor–every hardship was worth it!

    Aw, this is so nice to know. MashaAllah! Getting married at 18 and in a way, growing together, must be so wonderful and a real bonding experience.

  20. 2008 October 15

    Aww, marriage in Iran is much more easy for girls. Bcs that’s guy who need to pay things usually. Dowry is not as serious nowadays.
    Mahriyya is also upon girl and guy together..

    That pointing people’s son of course is same way:”tall, short, thin, fat, just not likable blah blah”

    Come and marry in Iran.. :D

    Shahrzad, I’ve already put Iran on my ‘must-visit’ list because you write so lovingly about it. Now, I have another reason, :D My dad goes to Iran for meetings quite frequently, and I asked him once what the people look like. He said the best looking guys are in Turkey, the best looking women in Iran! I asked how the guys in Iran were, and he said No way he’s ever taking me there with him, LOL! So, that means they were good.

    I do joke with my dad about this ‘looks’ issue a LOT; but I think, seriously, if i ever said this about a guy seriously, he’s a traditional dad and will wring my neck! (In a manner of speaking, ha ha)

  21. 2008 October 15
    Christine permalink

    the articles are sooo shocking….why they based marriage on looks and brains….

    Being married has responsibilities like getting a house,raise the kids etc…the husband should have a stable job first of all than looks…its usually happened here in Philippines

    Marriage here is more liberal.

    Marriage here is different for different families. But most of them are really traditional, hence the problem.
    I did mention why the marriages were based on looks and brains; there’s not much else you have a choice in when its an arranged marriage.
    It was interesting to know how it happens in Philippines! And welcome to my blog. :)

  22. 2008 October 15
    Refugee permalink

    What is wrong with 30 years old guys ? I would be 30 in couple of months and seriously I want to marry a 23-24 year old gal ? Is that some thing wrong with that? Please enlighten me

    I guess a 24 year old would be okay for you. You forget that I’ve just hit 22 and I think for girls my age, its awfully hard to be mentally compatible with someone who is, for all practical purposes, the product of a decade before me. An 8 years’ difference in an arranged marriage is TOO much.
    However, were it a love match, I’d marry a 40 year old without much thought. But seriously, if its an arranged match, you already don’t know what the other person is like; the last thing you need is for them to come from another era.

  23. 2008 October 15
    raniyas permalink

    It’s odd but I face the completely opposite problem. It is usually me who picks out the fault in the guys and my parents usually approve everything they can presented. That doesn’t mean I openly discuss or tell the faults I see in the guy to my parents or anyone, but they result in a ‘No’ from my side. My parents just look if the guy is a decent guy, as in religious and a bit educated and the rest they dont take into consideration, but for me he has to have at least something in common with me. I need to be able to relate to him or like him, which is never the case and it frustrates my parents more than me. So much that they’ve gotten to a point where they threaten me that if I don’t say yes to one, they’ll say yes and I will have to cope with it.

    It is the opposite situation indeed! I keep on telling mine that if they don’t get to a decision, *I* will say yes to the next guy even if they hate him!

  24. 2008 October 15
    imtheonlyme permalink

    How come the dowry is given by the brides family when its really the groom giving money to the bride??

    Hi, iamtheonlyme. Welcome to my blog. I am sorry, i just don’t understand what you’re asking. Do you mean ‘why’ the dowry is given by the bride’s family in Pakistan? Its just a very wrong tradition here. That’s about it.

  25. 2008 October 15

    i like your last entry. as a European of course i believe in all that love story scenario and was totally against arrange marriages and this sort of stuff. after however I spent some time in India n pk, talked with people, saw comprehend about this system, I was not so sure of rights i hold before. seems in most, it works pretty good for both, man n woman, so i really don’t know. I still believe in love marriages though, as seems to be best for me but yes I do agree with you, people can be such a hypocrites

    regards from poland
    Amina

    Welcome to my blog, Amina. The arranged system works quite well in Pakistan sometimes but not any more because both parties are being shoved into the union by their parents.

  26. 2008 October 16

    This is such a thought-provoking post, thank you for sharing so much of yourself with us. When I was in college I had girlfriends from Pakistan & Korea, both of whom had arranged marriages. I can’t say it’s something I would have been comfortable with myself, but that doesn’t mean dating etc is any easier (or has any more guarantee of success!) than arranged marriages. I guess any way you cut it, relationships are complicated!

    It was surprising to know arranged marriages occur between Koreans too! Between Pakistanis, we don’t date because Islam doesn’t allow pre-marital relations so interaction between the opposite genders is not only very restricted, but also a big taboo.
    But you’re right! Any ways you look at it, relationships ARE complicated!

  27. 2008 October 17

    Oh, and did i mention the gold?
    I guess not but Specky, the brides in our family get a helluva lot of gold theres a list:-
    *takes a deep breath*
    First there’s the “big” necklace which is usually tiered,
    then there’s at least 2 small necklaces
    then theres the rings
    and the earings are so big they touch her shoulders
    then theres the bangles she gets 2 sets of 7 (no idea why 7 is so special)
    after that theres that insanely big nose piece
    and those other things i have no idea what they are.
    Most of which the guys side fork out for, as well as the numerous sets of clothing they buy her, make up, parfume, anything and everything.
    And the couple get cash.But this is only coz we gave like SO

    YIKES! Can she stand up by herself or does she need some support?

  28. 2008 October 17

    continuing…
    But this is bcoz we have way too many relatives.
    And Specs the guy is like my BROTHER.

    If you’ve been engaged for a longtime, you should NOT have made him ‘like a brother’ :D

    Okay, I’m just teasing, :)

  29. 2008 October 17
    karachiwali permalink

    “will you please meet him with your hair open? After the wedding, we can tell him that you wear the hijab”

    i surely have been through this a lot of the times….it really irks me!!

    Welcome to my blog, Karachiwali. It seems my experiences are more common than I thought!

  30. 2008 October 17

    The whole experience is very very beautifully put.

    one word, poker as my mom puts it for shadi. You cannot really say and you cannot really predict. so it really is poker.

    and you only picked the roller-coaster ride part of my itna lamba chaura comment .. i am fairly disappointed :/ The whole point of a lamba chaura comment was to keep your expectations lower. and i did mention the responsibility part in my post .. *sigh*.

    perceptions are tricky.

    Sorry to disappoint you, man! But i referred the link so everyone can check your comment in its entirety.

    Perceptions are, indeed, tricky.

  31. 2008 October 18

    This is well written. But do you think it works like this across the board? For one, a dowry is unIslamic as far as I can think. The mahar is supposed to be given by the guy to the girl at sometime so that she can support herself in case of a misfortune.

    O well…those are just things to think about. Many a times tradition has corrupted religion. O well…o well…

    Welcome to the blog.

    Dowry is NOT Islamic. Being NOT Islamic and UnIslamic are two different things. I hope I didn’t come across as being an advocate of dowry?

    You’re very right about religion being corrupted by tradition. Specially in the Sub Continent. Sad situation.

  32. 2008 October 18

    Lol! Nice post. I disagree with you at places, but that doesn’t matter. Trust me, finding a girl ain’t an easy task either.

    I wrote about it once. Go to my blog, and look at the post from June 16, 2008. (There’s only one post from that date) I won’t name the post title here because its a little offensive. :P Can’t put the link either because that might put the comment into the moderation thingy. So you’ll have to navigate a bit more manually. :)

    That’s what I said too; i know finding a girl isn’t easy either. Will check the post. Thanks for dropping by and commenting!

  33. 2008 October 19
    Dazy permalink

    I dont know much about anything but I reckon its better to stay single

    If you have to get married adopt the Muta’a version and dump them when they dont tidy up after themselves, demand dinner and dont buy nice presents

    Dazy

    Hey Dazy, good to hear from you!
    You’re right. Dump and get a new one is the only way to go!

  34. 2008 November 2

    OK. posted the first thought.

    Thanks for taking the time out to share your experiences; I don’t think I know anyone else who I knew on both sides of the fence (either their marriages are not arranged; or they were already married when I got to know them)…and its great to know how it’s working out for you!

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  1. Chronic Marriage Phobia Chronicles II | Tea Break
  2. Global Voices Online » Pakistan: Choices in an arranged marriage
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